DISQUS

Say Anything: Why The Civil Liberties Argument Falls On Deaf Ears

  • jpe · 3 years ago
    [quote]The plot to blow up a dozen or so British airplanes...was thwarted because our government was engaging in the sort of activity these civil liberties hysterics abhor.[/quote]

    First, I don't think this is correct. Second, if it were, it's not enough to make your argument - you'd have to argue that but for the illegal program(s), the same information wouldn't have been discovered.
  • WOOF · 3 years ago
    Britain and the FBI obtained [b]warrants[/b]

    in the airplane plot.
  • Rodney Graves · 3 years ago
    jpe,

    Then you have not been paying attention. NSA and other US intelligenge agencies broke the plot, which the British were following from a law enforcement approach. We forced the issue when we informed the UK Intelligence services that we would be grabbing one of the key players, and our listing of suspected accomplices matched their case.

    Nor are the programs (as described) illegal. FIS Court Approval only pertains to cases where U. S. Persons are on one end AND where the Government intends to prosecute said U. S. Person under domestic law.

    Out Here
    Rodney Graves
    rodney.g.graves@gmail.com
  • robert108 · 3 years ago
    jpe: [quote] you'd have to argue that but for the illegal program(s), the same information wouldn't have been discovered.[/quote]

    That is exactly what happened. What is the alternative to surveillance?
    BTW, the "warrantless" meme is just a strawman argument by the left. They object to surveillance, period. The warrant process makes the surveillance less effective. That is the real purpose of the left: to make our anti-terrorism less effective.
  • jpe · 3 years ago
    Robert, you'd have to argue that surveillance w/ warrants would not have been able to yield the same or similar results.
  • Rob · 3 years ago
    [quote]Robert, you'd have to argue that surveillance w/ warrants would not have been able to yield the same or similar results.[/quote]

    Why? In a time of war the President has all the authority he needs to order monitoring of phone call data without a warrant.

    You really should try knowing what you're talking about, jpe.
  • Dave · 3 years ago
    It falls on deaf ears because terrified people don't want to be free, they want to be safe.

    So if we can keep them terrified, our government can continue to acquire more and more power at the expense of the individual. And at that point "liberty" becomes meaningless.
  • Rob · 3 years ago
    There has to be a balance. Civil liberty absolutism would be cold comfort if this nation (economically and socially) is in shambles because of terror attacks.
  • robert108 · 3 years ago
    jpe: Two facts: The relentless program of "Get the President" being played by the MSM, using the tactic of the leaking of classified info, and the nature of monitoring microwave transmissions(the true nature of the surveillance) by computers in the time of disposable cell phones. A computer cannot obtain a warrant without delaying the process by notifying a human being. To maintain maximum efficiency, the first time a human being is involved in the process is when the conversation(already in progress) is beamed to their headphones. If you have to delay that to initiate some warrent or even notification process, the intel will be lost.
  • gregdn · 3 years ago
    Robert:
    " If you have to delay that to initiate some warrent or even notification process, the intel will be lost. "

    You know FISA gives you 72 hours after the fact to get a warrant. It does however require 'probable cause' which is what I think the Administration is really trying to avoid.
  • robert108 · 3 years ago
    gregdn: At the pace automated microwave monitoring goes, 72 hours is an eternity. To create an entire layer of bureaucracy to deal with what is essentially a law enforcement approach to a wartime process would decrease our ability to process and surveil the enemy considerably, and that is exactly the purpose of the obstructionism being practiced by the NYT and the Dems/MSM. This is war, not a mugging. Even without the leaks(which have been very harmful and dangerous to national defense), the spy vs spy action that goes on in wartime makes any delays potentially fatal. This is about stopping the enemy, not civil rights.
  • joeb · 3 years ago
  • 2Hotel9 · 3 years ago
    Wow, joeb, nice little racist rant page you got going there. Does your mom know what you spend all you time on the computer doing?