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We also have the best health care in the world.
But here's the thing: What are you willing to pay for choice? I'm not willing to trade in my control, and my choice, in health care for a government-run, one-size-fits-all system that exchanges that choice for universal access to the same, crappy health care like Canada and other countries have.
Our current system isn't perfect, but I don't want to open the door to government in my medical life and all that comes with it: Higher taxes, and leverage for bureaucrats to regulate every part of my life from my diet to my exercise routine.
[quote]But here's the thing: What are you willing to pay for choice? I'm not willing to trade in my control, and my choice, in health care for a government-run, one-size-fits-all system that exchanges that choice for universal access to the same, crappy health care like Canada and other countries have.[/quote]I filed bankruptcy because of health care. I think basic health care in an industrial nation is a right.
next time, put a conservative up.
No it's not.
Here's some stats: Asians live longer than whites. Whites live longer than blacks.
See the problem with the metric yet? You're ignoring all of the many factors that go into life expectancy, such as genes and lifestyle.
I think basic health care in an industrial nation is a right.
There is no right that demands time and work from someone else.
How'd he pass this?
We only have the best health care in the world if you're in the top 10%.
Funny how cons are so willing to spend $3 trillion to kill tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians but the idea of providing health care to children in their own country upsets them. Even Vietnam provides all children under 12 with health care. Good thing we didn't win that war or our ideals wouldn't have allowed that.
Zsa Zsa on February 5, 2009 at 05:21 am[/quote]
This will "change." Socialized health care is just around the corner.
As a simple illustration, in my state it is mandated that an employer provided healthcare plan (supplemented by the employee) include coverage for things such as abortion, pre-natal care, and many other medical procedures, none of which I or my wife will ever use. We're way past child rearing age, have no kids, don't need this coverage but my employer and I are forced by law to pay for it regardless of this. Can anyone explain to me how this makes sense in any way?
Isn't it great they way liberals spend other people's money as if liberals pay taxes or something like that.
If you think you are just going to roll your own, wait until you find out the tax on raw tobacco was raised to $24 a pound. Looks like a new business opportunity for street organizers.
Oh oh, what happens if they don't get enough tax money from smokes to support the freebies?
bill-tb on February 5, 2009 at 06:29 am[/quote]
Anyone know if the tobacco industry made contributions to "the one's" campaign?
"Smoking is good for your health, and it's the patriotic thing to do! Just don't try to do it in a public place because that's illegal."
Stay tuned America. Around 14:30 hours Eastern Standard Time Obama is going to go to the bathroom and make pooh. The announcement will be made on the steps of Capitol Hill by Press Secretary Gibbs.
I fear that you and Lynn are both correct. Everything Obama does that is inconsequential and superficial will be flung about in the press like so much monkey feces, while every substantive decision will be hidden away, guarded to protect "The One", and us, from the sacred knowledge.
If you don't acknowledge that the emperor has not clothes, his shriveled impotence is protected
You've touched on something that I've been thinking about for a few days, that is, what if all the non-stimulus nonsense and coverage is just a smokescreen? We are already seeing public support for this monster nose-dive and they had to know it would. They may be crazy but they are not stupid. It's almost a classic study in misdirection, while we're all focused on the the flash-bang, the thief comes up from behind and steals our wallets. Call me a crazy, paranoid, conspiracy nut, but ... What other under the radar tricks does he have up his sleeve?
First, lets be honest. There is very little stimulus in the so-called "stimulus package." It is instead a taxpayer funded thank-you gift to those who put Pelosi and Obama into office. It's the "Chicago Way" remember?
Obama talks about creating 4 million jobs or so, but that's just so much rhetorical flourish aimed at those who prefer not to think... bullshit, in other words. A look at the Obama bill itself and all its assorted spending initiatives shows virtually nothing that will actually put a laid-off autoworker, retail clerk, property manager, banker, or middle manager back to work. And a review of economic history shows no instance when massive deficit spending by government brought a country out of a deflationary recession. None. What it did create in the past, here and elsewhere, is higher inflation and correspondingly higher interest rate later on down the road.
Obama may not be particularly knowledgeable, or experienced, but he is certainly crafty. He will continue to blame his predecessor for everything that goes wrong, while taking credit for any little thing that goes right. He can rely on Bernanke and the Fed to stop the deflation and the credit constipation by re-inflating the currency, and to know when and how to put on the brakes. And if Bernanke's judgment fails and the expected hyper-inflation does return, Obama will throw him under the bus the same as he did his 20-year spiritual advisor and mentor, Jeremiah Wright. A man with no scruples isn't burdened with shame either.
FDR's most famous line, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" got him elected 4 times... despite the fact that his policies had little if any impact on the country's economic situation. A decade after he uttered that line, the US was just starting to come out of the depression, thanks to the ramped up industrial production and the manpower requirements necessary to fight a two ocean World War. The lesson is to sell the rubes what they want to hear. And don't let them look behind the curtain and learn that they can do it on, and for themselves.
Obama is a Chicago liberal, whose agenda starts with the expansion of government and the diminuation of all that inconvenient freedom, liberty, and rugged individualism stuff. You are right to watch your back, and right to watch your wallet. Your "contribution" to the "common good" is gonna cost a whole lot more than what you've been told.
Seen it a hundred times.
That's because this mess is bush's fault.
All I keep hearing him say lately is so full of doom and gloom, trying to scare the public into buying this BS before they know what they're getting into. His latest attempt to get the uninformed to jump on the Hope Express, from Drudge this morning:
"Pass it now, or we may never recover!"
All I can hope for is that principled people on both sides of the aisle are smart enough and have enough integrity to put the brakes on. If not - God help us all.
I wonder if a few years from now we'll have someone standing on a stage yelling, "He played upon our fears!!!" in regard to this nonesense.
Take a hike, Swish! We already know you haven't got a f**king clue about any of this.
Says the mortgage broker who doesn't understand the role that Fannie & Freddie DIDN'T play in the meltdown.
The mortgage industry was on the front lines of the war that destroyed the economy. Most of you should be in prison.
There's still time.......
Sig,
Only two ways to look at this. Either he know what he's saying is horseshit, in which case he's little more than a lying megalomaniac, or he honestly believes what he's saying, in which case he is simply too ignorant and judgmentally impaired to be president. There really isn't any middle ground, is there?
"We are so screwed!"
You're absolutely right, either way we're about to enter one of the most dangerous times in our countries history with one of the most dangerous leaders we could possibly have.
What bothers me more than the counter-productive policy pronouncements, or the smarmy arrogance of a rookie radical with no principles, is Obama's apparent lack of humility about it all. Every other president I've seen, even the most seasooned leaders going back to Eisenhower, and including even the bombastic Clinton, was early on humbled by the job he had undertaken. Obama, who is clearly in over his head, has shown no such respect for the enormity of the responsibility has undertaken. And that worries me far more than the obvious fact that he doesn't know just what he's doing.
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." -- Yogi Berra
Pretty funny that wisdom of this sort came from the mouth of a man who was famous for his malapropisms.
I think this one is also appropriate:
"Fullness of knowledge always and necessarily means some understanding of the depths of our ignorance, and that is always conducive to both humility and reverence."
-- Robert A. Millikan
Wish I was smart enough to think of things myself, but am gald that I have the wisdom of others to draw from.
Sig,
Once again, from journalist Walter Winchell,
[quote]It takes wisdom to recognize wisdom. The music is nothing if the audience is deaf.[/quote]
Cheers!
[quote]You'll notice Lioncourt hasn't come back to explain why s/he filed bankruptcy instead of paying the medical bills.[/quote]I quit my job to be closer to my dying father. I had another job lined up, but in the intervening two weeks I got sick and was in the hospital for a month and intensive care for two weeks. A bill over $200k. I was not able to work for over a year. I filed bankruptcy to legally discharge those debts and i am not ashamed of it.
[/quote]
That about describes anyone working in real estate over the last 8 years or so.
(Definition somewhat paraphrased from Wiki. I'm mobile to avoid the stew of viruses on this site.)
How is someone working in real estate like a perpetrator of the Holocaust? Feel free to use logic [i]and[/i] reasoning! Show your work.
Lioncourt: Well I'm sorry to hear about your illness and hope things are better for you now.
Didn't you have insurance? My insurance company has a cap on out of pocket expenses of $2000/year (up to the several million in lifetime coverage). I didn't learn about this, until my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer last November.
That's why seeing the RE "profession" going the way of the dodo is so gosh-darned satisfying!
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My work system is what it is. I don't think asking for better virus protection so I can argue with the stems is a good idea.
The stew of viruses that, like your insane theories about economics and politics, exist only in your head.
To give you an illustration, in the time of the Romans in London, they have been show to have life spans comparable to modern humans. (This begs the question of quality of life of course.)
Oddly (for a physical scientist), I prefer metrics like customer satisfaction.
Guess in which country (in spite of its apparent high costs) that occurs in? The US.
Further, basic medical needs aren't that different in this country compared to other ones. (I can get a routine health visit e.g. for a cold for $40 at a walk-in clinic.) What drives up US costs isn't routine care, but the availability of high end care like heart transplant facilities, state of the art diagnostic equipment like PET-CT scanners. The radioisotope F18 they use for the PET scan has a half-life of about 20 minutes, which means the stuff is expensive as hell (often they build a cyclotron at the site of the PET scan machine to manufacture the radioisotope themselves).
Now it is precisely this sort of medical care that drives up the price of American health care.... In Europe the government decides whether they can afford it with their budget, who is allowed access and so forth.
Our system isn't perfect, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for.
Way to go, Demstem!
One last time: Although you have demonstrated a moderate capability where personal insult is concerned, you've shown nothing else that would intrigue a thoughtful individual to give you or anything you've written a second glance. And while your remarks are colorful, they are also abysmally shallow, predictably vile, and totally devoid of any discernible intelligence. What little you profess to know, the insults and the vocabulary, is likely cribbed from DU, DailyKOS, or some other progressive karst. But beyond that, you got nothin'!
Meanwhile, there [i]are[/i] other lefties here, even self-styled "progressives", who are fully capable of a thoughtful, well-reasoned discussions of issues. You are not, however, among them.
When your best "fastball" goes only 59 feet at 73 miles an hour, before dropping into the dirt and, maybe, skipping across the plate, its time to man up to the fact that there is no place for you in the bullpen... never mind on the starting rotation.
Waspish, adolescent boulevardiers don't much interest me...particularly those who go to such pains to display their ignorance. I've already raised, and coached, all the kids I care to.
--------
BatShitCrazy, sorry if the little Eichmann label distresses you so. Probably hits close to home.
Also sorry that, despite your communication skills and verbose writing style I was able to destroy your mindless drivel about Fannie & Freddie, the same now discredited drivel poor little Proof is alluding to.
But I bet you people in the RE industry are salivating over the misguided republican plan to create another RE bubble.
There are reasons for that. We have a higher murder rate than many countries (which leads to lower life expectancy). Getting shot in the head and heart is a hard problem for any surgeon.
We also have a higher rate of obecity than anywhere else in the world. That affects the stats just a bit too. As does smoking...etc.
Yet, the life expectancy is 77 in the US compared to the highest, which is 81. We have all those problems that other countries don't...and we're only 4 years behind? That's a testiment to our medicine.
The single greatest testament to what we have here in the US is the number of immigrants, legal and illegal, who come here... or try to. No other country comes anywhere close to having so many millions wanting to be here.
1. Never in all the ER's that I ever worked did we ever turn anyone away for lack of Insurance or proof of any ability to pay. Actually illegal to do so if you accept Gov't reimbursement.
2. The patients without insurance were referred to Social Services, who quickly got them into the Medicaid system of fixed prices.
3. For those patients without any coverage they had the general attitude that Uncle Sam would just take care of it for them.
4. Due to all the malpractice suits being perpetrated against Doctors, Hospitals, Clinics, Nurses, or any other entity with a pocketbook Health care practitioners have had to resort to what is known as "shot gun" medicine and treatment. Performing needless tests just in case something, God forbid, may go wrong and they end up in court of law. Which is exactly the reason that so many Obstetric units have closed down all around the country. They are just too risky to run with all the law suits that are filed against the OB/GYN's and staff.
5. The litigation has driven the costs of malpractice insurance through the roof, so much so that Doctors can no longer afford to be in independant practice and are forced into large Medical Center groups. Which like any other business the costs of which are passed on to the customers.
6. Any hospital or clinic which accepts Medicare payments does so on a fixed price system. Managed Care is what it is called, where even the length of stay in a hospital is determined by "the system" so comes the creative diagnosing in the event of any complications or just the inability of the patient to safely return home. Which often they do only to return for the same illness.
7. In order to qualify for Medicare reimbursement Health Care Facilities have to succomb to the JCAHO, the Joint Commision of Healthcare Accreditation affectionetly called the Joint Commission for short, inspection of the facility (really it's anal probing and leads to so much inefficiency that we don't have time to talk about here). This is another of our highly efficient (;-{), bureaucratic institutional nightmare, Washington type organizations. Who many will opine that was started by a bunch of MD's and nurses who really didn't or couldn't cut it in the trenches but couldn't retire yet.
I think you all get the idea. Really I could go on but...and please don't anyone talk to me about the greedy, rich Doctors. Until you have seen a Doctor want to tear his/her heart out because they couldn't save a child, baby, gramma, mother, son, daughter, or best friend do not sit in judgement.
Most Doctors that I worked with would put in a full day in the clinic, do evening rounds in the evening just to once again check on an unstable patient, often on their own time because the reimburser would only pay for 1 visit a day for hospitalized patients, or give comfort to a distraught family facing a horrible diagnoses of a loved one. Only upon arrival home to their family be called back to the hospital because of a critically ill patient or someone presented at the ER with chest pain. Maybe they would get something to eat, drink, or would be able to use the BR while making life and death decisions. Often these scenerios would keep that same doctor awake for 24-36 hours, only to do it all over again.
Privatized Health care, where decisions are made by the patient, their families, and their health care practitioners is the only way to save this bloated system. Oh Yeah, and don't even start me on tort reform! The system needs to be made competative. No amount of gov't subsidy has ever made anything efficient, innovative, or competative. IMHO