DISQUS

Say Anything: Military Recruiting Exceedingly Strong Despite Public's Alleged Dissatisfaction With The War

  • Hawk · 2 years ago
    [quote]That often have journalists pushing the idea that our desperate military is resorting to filling its ranks with criminals in order to make its goals?[/quote]

    They are meeting their goal because they have lowered standards. Which I am not sure is a totally bad thing.
  • Chief RZ · 2 years ago
    The 'alledged dissatisfaction' is a good term. We are meeting our goals. Period. Hawk, I'll wait a little while for your proof as was presented rebutting John Edward's claim that only 'poor kids' were in the military.
  • Kelly · 2 years ago
    I'll put my liberal/democrat hat on (it's gross, nasty and seldom used) and say it's because of the horrible Bush economy that is driving our citizens to join the military. Starve or fight in Iraq is the only choice they have.***throws hat back in garbage***
  • K Ashford · 2 years ago
    The military not only lowered its standards and increased its financial incentives, but in 2006 and 2007, [i]they lowered their target goals[/i] (after failing to meet them in 2005).

    I'm not sure that's worth a big "Hoo-yah", you know what I mean?
  • Kelly · 2 years ago
    What standards were lowered? I hear that all the time, but I don't know exactly how low is low. They let me in once upon a time--so it can't be THAT much lower!<<that's just a funny little joke on me.
  • Rob · 2 years ago
    I'd be interested in either Hawk or anyone else indicating to me what standards were lowered for military acceptance. And what goals were lowered. Because I think those are both big, dumb deflections.
  • Rodney Graves · 2 years ago
    Rob,

    Congratulations on your Installanche.

    dove,

    You have something to support your allegations with?

    Out Here
    Rodney Graves
    rodney.g.graves@gmail.com
  • Rob · 2 years ago
    [quote]Congratulations on your Installanche.[/quote]

    Oh wow. Pretty cool.

    I think that may be the third one this month...
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    National Guard and Air National Guard numbers have fallen in recent years because more recruits are choosing to go active duty upon enlistment. A shift that also happened after the first Gulf War. And give the "National Guard is only for natural disasters" crap a rest. 69TH Inf Regt. Col William Donovan. BOOYAA! 'nuff said.
  • Bat One · 2 years ago
    [quote]Congratulations on your Installanche.[/quote]

    Rob,

    Kinda like a modern, digital rendition of Moses and the burning bush. Congratulations, indeed.
  • cowalker · 2 years ago
    http://www.slate.com/id/2120146/sidebar/2120187/

    A. MEMORANDUM, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, G-1, HQDA, 10 MARCH 2005, SUBJECT AS ABOVE.

    B. AR 635-200 (ENLISTED ADMINISTRATIVE SEPARATIONS), PARAGRAPHS 1-1C,1-16A, 1-19C, D, AND E.

    2. ALL MACOMS WILL SEND A MESSAGE VIA E-MAIL TO THE FOLLOWING ADDRESS TO ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF THIS MESSAGE: DAPE-MPEINBOX@HQDA.ARMY.MIL

    3. WE ARE AN ARMY AT WAR AND INCREASING LEVELS OF ATTRITION OF FIRST-TERM ENLISTED SOLDIERS IN BOTH THE TRAINING BASE AND UNITS IS A MATTER OF GREAT CONCERN. WE NEED YOUR CONCERTED EFFORT TO REVERSE THE RECENT NEGATIVE TREND IN FIRST-TERM ATTRITION. BY REDUCING ATTRITION ONE PERCENT, THE ARMY CAN SAVE UP TO 3,000 INITIAL-TERM SOLDIERS THAT'S 3,000 MORE SOLDIERS IN OUR FORMATIONS. EACH SOLDIER RETAINED REDUCES THE STRAIN ON RECRUITING COMMAND AND OUR RETENTION PROGRAM, WHICH MUST REPLACE EVERY SOLDIER WHO DEPARTS THE ARMY EARLY.

    4. AS AN ADDITIONAL MEANS OF REDUCING ATTRITION, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY SEPARATION AUTHORITY FOR FIRST-TERM ENLISTED SOLDIERS IS ELEVATED FROM THE BATTALION COMMANDER TO THE SPECIAL COURT-MARTIAL CONVENING AUTHORITY (SPCMCA) FOR THE FOLLOWING SEPARATION CATEGORIES PRESCRIBED BY AR 635-200: FAILURE TO MEET PROCUREMENT MEDICAL FITNESS STANDARDS (PARAGRAPH 5-11); PREGNANCY (CHAPTER 8); ALCOHOL OR OTHER DRUG ABUSE REHABILITATION FAILURE (CHAPTER 9); ENTRY LEVEL PERFORMANCE AND CONDUCT (CHAPTER 11); UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE (CHAPTER 13); SELECTED CHANGES IN SERVICE OBLIGATIONS (CHAPTER 16, PARAGRAPHS 16-4 THRU 16-10); AND FAILURE TO MEET BODY FAT STANDARDS (CHAPTER 18). WITHHOLDING OF SEPARATION AUTHORITY FROM BATTALION COMMANDERS, AND ELEVATING IT TO SPCMCA LEVEL, IS DIRECTED BY HQDA PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH 1-19E, AR 635-200. SEPARATION AUTHORITY FOR CHAPTERS 5, 10, 14, AND 15 REMAIN AT THE SPCMA LEVEL.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    Did my comment sunday come through? "Wow, can you blogalanche!" I was blocked out for 7 hours.
  • Peg C. · 2 years ago
    I doubt very much they've lowered their standards. Moonbats can't stand the idea that competent people of good character would VOLUNTEER to serve their country these days, much less strongly desire to.

    Further, compare the regular military folks on TV, the net, blogs, podcasts, with your average, run-of-the-mill journalist, celebrity, academentian, politician. The competence, articulate speech, character and can-do spirit and attitude of our volunteer forces are head and shoulders above what you'll see in the others. People who join the military are vastly more admired by the American people than journalists, celebrities, the ivory tower crowd and especially politicians. There's a reason for that and lowered standards ain't one of them.

    Glenn nailed it. "There are two Americas. One of them is defending the other." And thank God for that.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    So what is that supposed to mean? I read Militarese, and you appear to have combined sections of paragraphs to create a whole. Give us the whole thing, don't dice&slice it.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    Not you, Peg, you are quite clear.
  • Bat One · 2 years ago
    Coworker,

    Ahem... I believe you've forgotten something:

    [quote]5. THE FOREGOING DIRECTION APPLIES TO SEPARATION PROCEEDINGS IN PROGRESS OR PENDING INITIATION. IT WILL REMAIN IN EFFECT UNTIL AT LEAST 1 JUNE 2006, AT WHICH TIME IT WILL BE REVIEWED FOR CONTINUATION OR TERMINATION.

    6. COMMANDERS AT ALL ECHELONS ARE ENJOINED TO REVIEW THE GUIDANCE ON COUNSELING, REHABILITATION, AND RETRAINING OF SOLDIERS PROMULGATED IN AR 635-200, PARAGRAPHS 1-1C AND 1-16A.

    7. THIS MESSAGE WILL EXPIRE 1 JUNE 2006.[/quote]

    Although it would be easy to look skeptically at this message (remember Dan Rather and the TANG documents?), it certainly would make sense for the Army, or any organization to want to retain as many experienced young members as possible. In many cases, if not most, the Army's biggest investment is in the new recruit.

    Attempting to retain more of those coming off their first enlistment, those who are young and experienced, rather than replacing them with more raw recruits, isn't a matter of lowering standards at all. On the contrary, its an attempt to raise the overall level of experience and competence.

    Let's not forget that required military manpower levels are actually set by Congress via the budget process. The more experienced troops that are retained, the fewer new recruits required. This isn't a lowering of standards at all. This is simply good personnel management.
  • missmanytoes · 2 years ago
    I followed cowalker's link to th referenced [u]Slate[/u] page...interesting stuff.....particularly what cowalker didn't include

    "7. THIS MESSAGE WILL EXPIRE 1 JUNE 2006."
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    So again, what was your point, your crux, as it were.
  • WOOF · 2 years ago
    [quote]As of March 31, the U.S. military included 81,000 teenagers. Its 7,350 17-year-olds needed parental consent to enlist, and only this April were all barred from battle zones.[/quote]

    [URL=http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001771355836343914][IMG]http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/18037/2001771355836343914_rs.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    [URL=http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001789188583960085][IMG]http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/15597/2001789188583960085_rs.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    [quote]$20,000 Enlistment Bonus!

    The Guard is now offering $20,000 to Non-Prior Service members who enlist in one of our Top 10 Critical MOS's. Click a code to view the job.

    Top 10 Critical MOS List

    * 11B - Infantryman
    * 13B - Cannon Crewmember
    * 13F - Fire Support Specialist
    * 21B - Combat Engineer
    * 21E - Heavy Construction Equipment Operator
    * 31B - Military Police
    * 63B - Light-Wheel Vehicle Mechanic
    * 74D - Chemical Operations Specialist
    * 88M - Motor Transport Operator
    * 92F - Petroleum Supply Specialist [/quote]
  • Brendon Carr · 2 years ago
    Something is going on with the Army.

    I am a veteran and live in Korea, which has a large contingent of troops in garrison (about 25,000 active duty plus dependents and camp followers). It appears from this perspective that since 2003 there has been a relatively sharp "bump" in Army criminal shenanigans out in town. And loutish stupidity is way, way up. Now, the level of criminality is still quite low, but it's more than it used to be. My friends still on active duty are grousing that it's because recruiting standards have been "lowered" to make up recruiting shortfalls with "low-quality" troops who would otherwise be bothering folks in America.
  • WOOF · 2 years ago
    [quote]ACTIVE DUTY ENLISTMENT BONUS

    Qualified Active Duty recruits may be eligible for a combination of bonuses up to $40,000.

    ACTIVE DUTY EDUCATION BONUSES

    Qualified applicants who enlist for two or more years in any Army Military Occupational Specialty may receive one of the following bonuses for civilian education:

    * Bachelor's degree--$6,000
    * Associate or two-year degree--$5,000
    * High school graduates with 60 or more college semester hours--$4,000
    * High school graduates with 30 to 59 college semester hours--$2,000
    [/quote]
  • Bob Ellison · 2 years ago
    Excellent post! I've been wondering about this issue for years now. The MSM is really dedicated to the notion that we're having trouble recruiting, yet the services keep reporting that they've met their goals. The information/belief gap widens constantly. Stop a man or woman on the street and ask "are the armed services getting enough new recruits?", and he/she will always say no. This myth is unlike most in the MSM, because the stories are so ignorant of facts.
  • Kelly · 2 years ago
    Woof, April of what year? My husband was in Iraq 3 years ago and 17 year olds weren't allowed to go over there than. I remember that for a fact because a 17 year old in his company at the time had to wait back here to turn 18 before he could be sent over.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    woofie likes to throw all kinds of random crap at the wall, just to see what sticks.

    I enlisted in January '79 at 17. Parental signature required. Had there been combat ops ongoing at the time I would have been barred from deployment to such ops. Then as now.
  • WOOF · 2 years ago
    Kelly
    Am quoting this 2007 report

    http://www.alternet.org/story/51889/
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    And Brendon, perhaps it is tied to the fact that during times of war there is a harder draw on good NCOs, those who generally ride herd on young troops. And a relaxing of discipline in non deployed units. The Off-Duty, Off-Post, Off-the-clock attitude. And then again, troops in Korea are under a doubled load. As soon as Kim Il kills himself American troops will have to cross the DMZ into the second largest humanitarian crisis currently unfolding.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    Oh, yea, alternet, now there is a bastion of journalistic integrity.
  • Brian H · 2 years ago
    That active service recruitment comparison shows almost 3,000 over target. Mostly in the high-deployment services.

    It's interesting to speculate about what the situation would be if the Ds hadn't folded like a house of cards under the MSM assault, beginning with the creation of the illusion that eliminating WMDs was not only the primary but the sole reason for taking out SH.

    As for risk, I recently saw a comparison of American KIA/day figures for conflicts from WWI to OIF. It rose from hundreds to thousands WWI to WWII, declined to 20 in Vietnam, and stands at 2 in OIF.
  • clazy · 2 years ago
    It's bizarre that we feel compelled to defend enlistment rates that come anywhere near the targets.

    We do, however, for the same reason that achieving them is difficult--and it isn't the war itself, it's the continual barrage of anti-war propaganda that the major media organizations disguise as news.

    Just this morning I heard an excellent example of this phenomenon on NPR's Morning Edition. You'll find the audio [url=http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10318800]here[/url]

    The piece is astonishing for its ghoulish willingness to make a political point by using the grief of a man who lost his son one week ago. I've put the transcript below for you.

    You'll see that the reporter, Fred Thys, makes the most desultory effort at hiding his tracks by quoting the dead soldier's sister, Jennifer Bacevich:

    [quote]I think a lot of people think that this is a story just about a professor that was against the war, that had a son that died in the war. And it's not, you know. More than anything, I think, we think our brother was just a -- he was a fantastic human being, and a really...[/quote]

    The result is painfully ironic, however, because Thys's piece is, in fact, nothing but [i]a story...about a professor that was against the war[/i]. It's 3 minutes long. We learn nothing else of consequence about the younger Andrew Bacevich. It's all a set up for the elder Andrew's regret, his sense of guilt, and it's all constructed to close on this zinger:

    [quote]Prof. BACEVICH: What kind of democracy is this when the people do speak and the people's voice is unambiguous, but nothing happens.

    THYS: Our voices, he says, are simply lost.
    [/quote]

    And that's it. So: any question where NPR stands? Or how much they care about any of the Baceviches? Couldn't leave him alone for a while, eh?


    Transcript:

    Critic of Iraq War Remembers Son Lost in that War
    22 May 2007

    RENEE MONTAGNE, host:

    The father is a retired Army officer who served in Vietnam and has become a noted conservative critic of the war in Iraq. The son was a first lieutenant who is killed in that war on Mother's Day. Young Andrew Bacevich died in s suicide bombing north of Baghdad. The elder Andrew Bacevich teaches at Boston University.

    Fred Thys of member station WBUR went to Walpole, Massachusetts, to talk to him and his family.

    FRED THYS: Andrew Bacevich's sisters, Amy, Katie and Jennifer, meet in a coffee shop near their parent's home to talk about their brother. Jennifer Bacevich says they don't want his memory lost in the fact that he was the son of a prominent critic of the war.

    Ms. JENNIFER BACEVICH (Sister of Andrew Bacevich, Jr.): I think a lot of people think that this is a story just about a professor that was against the war, that had a son that died in the war. And it's not, you know. More than anything, I think, we think our brother was just a -- he was a fantastic human being, and a really...

    Unidentified Woman: ...and we will miss him. Yeah.

    Ms. J. BACEVICH: We will miss him very much.

    THYS: Bacevich graduated from Boston University in 2003. After working briefly for Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, he enlisted in the Army as a private, rising to first lieutenant. The older Andrew Bacevich agreed to talk about his son on the family's screened-in porch. Bacevich served in Vietnam in 1970 and 1971. At a time, he says, it was clear that that war was not going to be won.

    Professor ANDREW BACEVICH (International Relations, Boston University): And my son goes to Iraq in 2006 when, at least it's apparent to me, that this war is not going to be won and is probably headed for some dismal conclusion. So our kinship is that we -- he and I had a knack for picking the wrong war in which to serve.

    THYS: Bacevich never shared these thoughts with his son because he didn't want to burden him with them. In his grief, he's asking himself what his obligations are as a citizen and as a father.

    Prof. BACEVICH: I mean, one of the things that I've been really struggling with over the last several days is to try to understand my own responsibility for my son's death.

    THYS: Bacevich says he thought his responsibility as a citizen was to give voice to his concerns about the war. His loss, he says, has made him question the lasting value of his criticism.

    Prof. BACEVICH: What kind of democracy is this when the people do speak and the people's voice is unambiguous, but nothing happens.

    THYS: Our voices, he says, are simply lost.

    For NPR News, I'm Fred Thys.
  • clazy · 2 years ago
    I forgot to point this out--they actually categorize this travesty as a "remembrance". For real. Maybe they should try remembering their humanity. And then maybe they'll come across their journalistic ethics, as well. But it'll require forgetting their ego, and that's like a monkey on their back, and hungry for failure.
  • MDC · 2 years ago
    I'm a tad unsure why adjusting things from a cold-war peacetime arrangement to a long hot-war arrangement is presented as some sort of proof of something or other bad (by some). That would be like accusing a store of failure because they shift their stock to respond to different market forces. Some people are desperate to see failure in all things American.
  • KT · 2 years ago
    Little question on the stats: why are so many of them so close to 100% (and not over)? Navy tends to hit quota EXACTLY. Do they stop taking accessions when they reach quota?
  • Paulie B · 2 years ago
    Note: I joined the National Guard two weeks ago (after a one year break in service) because I'm sick and tired of dealing with whiney-assed civilians every day.

    So... quantitatively speaking... What were the recruiting standards before, and what were they lowered to now? What's the time frame on this? Have the standards always been higher than today's? Remember... be quantitative.
  • Proof · 2 years ago
    [quote]Do they stop taking accessions when they reach quota? [/quote] Could be! Maybe the recruiters start "sand bagging" for [i]next[/i] year's quota...
  • XBradTC · 2 years ago
    In re: recruiting standards, there is in fact a kind of double standard. One is set in the US code, and by law establishes the minimum characteristics acceptable for service. The other standard is set by regulation of the individual services. For instance, the law (IIRC) prohibits accession by mental category V persons. The services, based on the numbers they need and the trends in recruiting then determine their goals for how many soldiers in each category they will take. For instance, they may decide to accept all Cat IV applicants with a HS diploma but restrict the numbers of CatIV applicants with a GED to say, 2% of Cat IV accessions. As the needs of the service go up or down, they adjust these provisions-often several times a quarter.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    PB, I warned you! Civs are all screwed up in the head. Sorry guys, from a trooper perspective thats just how it is. All the vets know what I mean.

    Are you going to push to get back in longrange trigger mode?
  • Paulie B · 2 years ago
    2H9, I'm in a desk job for a year. Don't know what's going to happen to me after that. I just do what needs to be done. (I'm full time Guard btw)
  • No Oil for Pacifists · 2 years ago
    Great post; I've linked it. And I don't understand Woof's (largely un-expressed) point--corporations routinely pay recruiting bonuses without being accused of undermining the free will of employees.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    Paulie, goddamn!! I feel for you, brother. Are you at least getting regular range time?

    NOFP, good point. I wonder what BlackRock is offering currently? Or for that matter Schlumberger or GeoMechanical Downhole Services is paying in recruiting bonuses and Per Deim. Hell, they probaly rate higher for Nigeria and Venezuela than Iraq/Kuwait right now.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    HEY! What happened to the cartoon curse words?!?!!??
  • cmblake6 · 2 years ago
    Indeed. The sillyvilians have not a clue, in more cases by far than not. Some DO know that, were it not for us, they'd be under the boot. Would that more knew this. OR...is it that those who protest the American Fighting Man think [i]they'd[/i] be treated as heroes by those who would destroy us?
  • Paulie B · 2 years ago
    It's not that the people that worked for me disliked the military - they were actually quite pro-military. However, it's just that a lot of them... when you told them to stop talking and go back to work... they reacted like I'd just slaughtered their families in front of them.

    Don't even tell them that they'll have to work their first Saturday in four years... You wanna see grown men (and women) cry?
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    Civs have damned odd priorities. And they spend an inordinate amount of time trampling each other's prerogatives. Cry about working a weekend? Hell, tell them they got to spend a night, in the rain, with nothing but LBE, weapon, and poncho, counting vehicles passing on a road without being seen. Talk about wailing!
  • PJ · 2 years ago
  • Rodney Graves · 2 years ago
    So the marketing types screwed the pooch. That would be unexpected why?
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    Very nice. Exactly how much towards credit in that college course does serving in a military pharmacy under the direct supervision of certified Pharmacist count? Article kind of don't mention that. Oh, and where does the DoD acquire its Pharmacists?
  • Jeanna · 2 years ago
    I do know that weight and age limits have changed since I was in about 14 years ago.
  • sgtjon · 2 years ago
    Sure it is $1.2 Billion

    See ARMY WRONG to hear the other side: www.armywrong.net

    There's a counter-recruiting goin' on.
  • 2Hotel9 · 2 years ago
    sgtcommie, your effort is a failure. Good job, moron.