Say Anything: Greedy Teachers Asking For More Money
MikeAdamson
· 4 years ago
If teaching our children wasn't such an important job then I would agree with you. Teachers are grossly underpaid considering the influential and vital nature of the profession and no I'm not a teacher.
WOOF
· 4 years ago
The "average " american also has about 4 less years education than a teacher. 4 years where the teacher was not working and probably incurring substantial debt. If the job/money were so good districts would not have to be trying so hard to attract teachers.
You might also have less of this as Toyota decides to open a plant in Canada. ""The level of the workforce in general is so high that the training program you need for people, even for people who have not worked in a Toyota plant before, is minimal compared to what you have to go through in the southeastern United States," said Gerry Fedchun, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association, whose members will see increased business with the new plant." http://www.canada.com/businesscentre/story.html?id=bb0f2845-74dc-4861-a6dd-77d52f4488cf
Aaron
· 4 years ago
This is simply one more reason that the gov't get out of the business of educating my kids. Private schools are much better, and often cheaper, than public schools. Gov't run schools are a disaster...
Carl B.
· 4 years ago
I agree completely with mike. Teachers are worth more than $30k...even $40. Make them love their jobs to the point of bonafide enthusiasm; it is an investment for the future of everybody. I can think of a few salaried job positions of corporate rather than public benefit, that combined outnumber teacher positions, where you could skim $10k off their huge annuals and they'd still be able to afford their vacation home(s).
Aaron
· 4 years ago
Of course, you realize that makes you a communist, right Carl?
Carl B.
· 4 years ago
you think in "isms" aaron? I'm not thinking communism or capitalism or anythingism...I think that as individuals we can place greater importance on the education of our children than insurance commission or credit card overdraft revenue...without spending the next several days writing a vague synopsis of how this could work as far as national money circulation in the "free market", I hope you get what I mean. Why'd you have to go and post that pic of your family, dammit? You're to remain a dumb animal in my mind's eye, not a human being!!!!! :P
Tom Johnson
· 4 years ago
Better move to Michigan
July 01, 2005 List of Salaries: Huron Valley School Administrators How much does the Huron Valley School district pay its administrators?
We think taxpayers should know this information, so we requested the 2004 W-2's of many Huron Valley administrators through the Freedom of Information Act. By law, the school district had to provide us with this data, which we feel is especially important due to the recent budget cuts and superintendent hire.
We added up a total of $3,606,709 paid in 2004 to administrative management listed on the district's website.
"This list includes administrative positions below director and principal as well as non-management individuals," according to Janet Roberts, Director of Community Relations & Fund Development for the Huron Valley Schools. The number does not include positions such as Assistant Principal or lower level administrative support.
Roberts explained that the size and complexity of the system require a certain level of administrative support.
"Huron Valley, with it's nearly $91 million dollar budget, is one of the largest employers in Huron Valley, with over 1,800 employees, 18 buildings, and strict federal and state accountability rules and regulations which make it akin to large corporations," she said.
"Each year, the amount of our budget that is devoted to teaching and learning increases, even with budget cuts. And, this year, because of budget reductions, we cut two administrative positions. We cut administrative positions last year as well."
She went on to say that the district has been recognized for their ability "to do more with less" within the state and nationally.
"According to Standard & Poors, we have some of the lowest administrative costs per pupil, but higher student achievement, in the state of Michigan as compared to public school districts in Oakland County and across the state.
"We are proud of our staff, our students and our record of achievement, especially since we one of the lowest funded districts in the state of Michigan." ================================================================
NOTE: These numbers below are the total "medicare wages and benefits," which include items such as auto allowance, elected deferrals under a salary reduction agreement, and other benefits beyond the standard employee benefit package.
Superintendent Robert M. O'Brien, Ph.D. $375,944
Assistant Superintendent of Instructional Services Nancy E. Coratti $138,230
Assistant Superintendent of Administrative Services Jackie Tuckfield-Johnston $140,201
Executive Director of Human Resources Mike Teasdale $46,958 (part year)
Director of Technology Joe Hilliard $94,744
Director of Student Support Services Julie Conn $106,026
Director of Community Relations & Fund Development Janet Roberts $77,465
Director of Assessment, Curriculum & Staff Development Kathleen Svoboda $105,545
======================================= Athletics Gene Balawajder, Director $98,600
Career Focus Education Joyce Vallone, Coordinator $44,950
Computer Information Systems Dawn Cruz, Supervisor $75,033
Community Schools & Recreation Facilities Paul DeAngelis, Director $106,854
District Media Denise Davies $33,334
Finance Jill Tomyn, Supervisor $80,640
Food Service Joan Steele, Supervisor $72,259
Instructional Data Coordinator Janell Craig $52,666
Maintenance & Operations Randy Westerman, Supervisor $76,357
Purchasing Nora Gilbert, Supervisor $71,372
State & Federal Programs Gwenis Laura, Director $92,190
Transportation Matthew Hess, Supervisor $72,091
PRINCIPALS
Apollo Elementary School Diane Chema, Principal $97,095
Baker Elementary School Lindsay Cotter, Principal $98,752
Brook Elementary School Julie Bedford, Principal $96,024
Country Oaks Elementary School Deborah Devers, Principal $85,334
Heritage Elementary School Frank Bateman, Principal $100,272
Highland Elementary School Bruce Bendure, Principal $107,039
Johnson Elementary School Larry Johnson, Principal $102,538
Kurtz Elementary School Bob Orosey, Principal $102,765
Lakewood Elementary School Christopher Wall, Principal $105,358
Oxbow Elementary School Peg Sell, Principal $99,582
Spring Mills Elementary School Dale Phillips, Principal $97,401
Highland Middle School Mark Wilson, Principal $101,289
Muir Middle School Gayle Lizzet, Principal $105,781
Oak Valley Middle School Scott Lindberg, Principal $98,964
White Lake Middle School Paul Gmelin, Principal $102,808
Harbor High School Tammy Spangler - Timm, Director $44,394
Lakeland High School David Maile, Principal $116,774
Milford High School Mike Krystyniak, Principal $50,035 (part year)
Sailorette
· 4 years ago
He just told you the name for what you proposed, Carl.
Ya aren't going to say someone thinks in lables if they say "pickup" and "van" and "car" instead of "four wheeled motorized vehicles," are you? *grin*
Aaron
· 4 years ago
lol!
I was simply pointing out that the idea of artificially increasing one profession's pay and artificially reducing another profession's pay is very close to communism...
If the gov't got out of the business of educating out children, good teachers would make what they are worth and crappy teachers would be fired. Right now, all teachers across most of the country are treated equally. It's kinda like, "We're all miserable together"
MikeAdamson
· 4 years ago
Adam Smith's Invisible Hand is about as realistic a solution as the anarcho-syndicalist commune in the Quest for the Holy Grail. Both lovely on paper but sadly lacking in the reality department.
Aren't the differences between people's world outlooks fascinating?
Shrewmouse
· 4 years ago
Here is what has always pissed me off about teachers. They grew up in the education system. From kindergarten to graduate school they got to see first hand what the life of a teacher is. They all went to college knowing full well that they were never going to command a large salary. They looked around themselves in a crowded lecture hall saw that that teachers are a dime a dozen. They went to graduate school, and while they were there, they interned at a local school. They walked into the world of teaching with their eyes wide open. They choose, with their own free will, to become a teacher, and yet they have the nerve to bitch because they got EXACTLY what they knew they would get.
Factor in their pensions, their health care, and their three month vacation and combine that with the sheer number of teachers that are turned out of colleges each year and you'll see that they are overpaid.
RJacksonB
· 4 years ago
Thinking about this some more, I would like to see the Gates foundation (or equiv) fund a few random schools across the country for a 'doubling of salary' experiment. No seniority, no tenure, no job security, just the very best competing for open jobs. Then, see if there are any measurable metrics related to the outcome of the students years later in life. Could something like this be done without being beaten to death with spin from one side or another?
RJacksonB
· 4 years ago
A very interesting reference to read is John Taylor Gatto's: The History of American Education. He will challenge most of your commonly held beliefs about education. Agree or disagree, it is the most unique and different point of view you will read about american education.
RJacksonB
· 4 years ago
40K goes a lot differently in different parts of the country, so using this dollar figure is not the best figure to use.
That being said, some teachers are well worth 40K and well more. Some of my kid's teachers are not worth 20K, imho. With my kids at least. In a perfect world, all compensation would be tied to performance and value given, not length on the job or degrees held. The problem is that it is very tough to measure. Teachers will teach for the tests only if their salary is tied to test scores, and will be too nice if the salary is tied to student and parent reviews. I don't currently see a fair way of reviewing teachers and compensation.
On the other hand, Stephen J Gould once suggested the public school system could be fixed by doubling the salary of teachers. This would attract the best and brightest students that typically get lured into MBA/PhD/MS/etc programs. This would put some real competition for these jobs. I don't know if private schools pay more, thus attracting better teachers and thus having better student performance. I have not seen data either way, but is an interesting idea and seems plausable. It is an expensive experiment, however.
As an earlier poster pointed out, there is an awful lot of administration that chews up edu budgets, thus keeping teacher salaries tight. I would add building improvements as a source of waste as well. The grade school down the street is constantly under construction. No new classrooms are built, but the offices are enlarged and remodelled, landscaping done, parking lot done, curbs done, new computers (which nobody knows how to use), roof seems to be redone yearly, etc. I would like to see this minimized prior to the front line teacher compensation.
Good teachers should be well paid and bad teachers should be replaced, just like any other profession. The market should be allowed to set these numbers.
My points are all over the board here, but having the union increase salaries simply to increase salaries is not the right approach to take and and can make teacher-parent relationships adversarial.
JoeBruin88
· 4 years ago
Teachers don't go into teaching to make money. I wanted to make more money, which is part of why I left the god-awful profession of teaching. Honestly, teachers don't deserve more money because the students are gettting dumbere and dumber. Teaching is the onlr profession where you get raises just for breathing. You aren't rewarded on your performance, so it doesn't really matter if the students do better, a teacher will still get a raise.
I like what Arnold is trying to do in California, to raise the minimum years of service for tenure to five and to change the salary structure of teachers' salaries to a more merit-based pay system.
Don't give teachers more money. It will just be wasted.
Crystal Clear
· 4 years ago
It only gets more interesting/ridiculous if you consider this: "After five years on the job, city bus drivers in Honolulu earn more than police officers, firefighters and public school teachers, according to salary information gathered by the company that runs TheBus for the city" Unions only make one group wealthy...the union leaders
ellinas
· 4 years ago
Power to the working people. If paying them a higher wage is communism, so be it. Why is it ok to give taxpayer money to big corporations and not the working stiffs? Witness how much EXXON got even after a $8 billion profit. The transfer in wealth in this instance is not called communism. WHY?
Sphagnum
· 4 years ago
If paying them a higher wage is communism, so be it.
Wow.... a communist in our midst, I'll remember that...
Why is it ok to give taxpayer money to big corporations and not the working stiffs?
In case you havn't noticed, most of the people around here don't like taxpayer money going to ANYONE, cooperate or private.
ellinas
· 4 years ago
Educating the future generations is every Americans responsibility. This insures that our country remains competitive, educated,and most of all happy. Unhappiness breeds resentment,and class warfare. The teachers have to be payed.If the teachers don't get a decent salary,they will not be able to educate, as they will have to get another job to make ends meet. The alternative is to import teachers from India (or elsewhere) and pay them $15000 per year and have them staying 5 families per house. Insuring that America is educated insures a bright future for our country. Besides, I believe that all of you got a public education and turned out to be fine upstanding AMERICANS.
Kelly Miller
· 4 years ago
Federal Student Loan consolidation - Lock in the lowest rates with NextStudent. Also offers scholarship search engine, Stafford Loans and PLUS Loan Applications.
All Comments
4 years where the teacher was not working and probably incurring substantial debt.
If the job/money were so good districts would not have to be trying so hard to attract teachers.
You might also have less of this as Toyota decides to open a plant in Canada.
""The level of the workforce in general is so high that the training program you need for people, even for people who have not worked in a Toyota plant before, is minimal compared to what you have to go through in the southeastern United States," said Gerry Fedchun, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association, whose members will see increased business with the new plant."
http://www.canada.com/businesscentre/story.html?id=bb0f2845-74dc-4861-a6dd-77d52f4488cf
July 01, 2005
List of Salaries: Huron Valley School Administrators
How much does the Huron Valley School district pay its administrators?
We think taxpayers should know this information, so we requested the 2004 W-2's of many Huron Valley administrators through the Freedom of Information Act. By law, the school district had to provide us with this data, which we feel is especially important due to the recent budget cuts and superintendent hire.
We added up a total of $3,606,709 paid in 2004 to administrative management listed on the district's website.
"This list includes administrative positions below director and principal as well as non-management individuals," according to Janet Roberts, Director of Community Relations & Fund Development for the Huron Valley Schools. The number does not include positions such as Assistant Principal or lower level administrative support.
Roberts explained that the size and complexity of the system require a certain level of administrative support.
"Huron Valley, with it's nearly $91 million dollar budget, is one of the largest employers in Huron Valley, with over 1,800 employees, 18 buildings, and strict federal and state accountability rules and regulations which make it akin to large corporations," she said.
"Each year, the amount of our budget that is devoted to teaching and learning increases, even with budget cuts. And, this year, because of budget reductions, we cut two administrative positions. We cut administrative positions last year as well."
She went on to say that the district has been recognized for their ability "to do more with less" within the state and nationally.
"According to Standard & Poors, we have some of the lowest administrative costs per pupil, but higher student achievement, in the state of Michigan as compared to public school districts in Oakland County and across the state.
"We are proud of our staff, our students and our record of achievement, especially since we one of the lowest funded districts in the state of Michigan."
================================================================
NOTE: These numbers below are the total "medicare wages and benefits," which include items such as auto allowance, elected deferrals under a salary reduction agreement, and other benefits beyond the standard employee benefit package.
Superintendent
Robert M. O'Brien, Ph.D.
$375,944
Assistant Superintendent of Instructional Services
Nancy E. Coratti
$138,230
Assistant Superintendent of Administrative Services
Jackie Tuckfield-Johnston
$140,201
Executive Director of Human Resources
Mike Teasdale
$46,958 (part year)
Director of Technology
Joe Hilliard
$94,744
Director of Student Support Services
Julie Conn
$106,026
Director of Community Relations & Fund Development
Janet Roberts
$77,465
Director of Assessment, Curriculum & Staff Development
Kathleen Svoboda
$105,545
=======================================
Athletics
Gene Balawajder, Director
$98,600
Career Focus Education
Joyce Vallone, Coordinator
$44,950
Computer Information Systems
Dawn Cruz, Supervisor
$75,033
Community Schools & Recreation Facilities
Paul DeAngelis, Director
$106,854
District Media
Denise Davies
$33,334
Finance
Jill Tomyn, Supervisor
$80,640
Food Service
Joan Steele, Supervisor
$72,259
Instructional Data Coordinator
Janell Craig
$52,666
Maintenance & Operations
Randy Westerman, Supervisor
$76,357
Purchasing
Nora Gilbert, Supervisor
$71,372
State & Federal Programs
Gwenis Laura, Director
$92,190
Transportation
Matthew Hess, Supervisor
$72,091
PRINCIPALS
Apollo Elementary School
Diane Chema, Principal
$97,095
Baker Elementary School
Lindsay Cotter, Principal
$98,752
Brook Elementary School
Julie Bedford, Principal
$96,024
Country Oaks Elementary School
Deborah Devers, Principal
$85,334
Heritage Elementary School
Frank Bateman, Principal
$100,272
Highland Elementary School
Bruce Bendure, Principal
$107,039
Johnson Elementary School
Larry Johnson, Principal
$102,538
Kurtz Elementary School
Bob Orosey, Principal
$102,765
Lakewood Elementary School
Christopher Wall, Principal
$105,358
Oxbow Elementary School
Peg Sell, Principal
$99,582
Spring Mills Elementary School
Dale Phillips, Principal
$97,401
Highland Middle School
Mark Wilson, Principal
$101,289
Muir Middle School
Gayle Lizzet, Principal
$105,781
Oak Valley Middle School
Scott Lindberg, Principal
$98,964
White Lake Middle School
Paul Gmelin, Principal
$102,808
Harbor High School
Tammy Spangler - Timm, Director
$44,394
Lakeland High School
David Maile, Principal
$116,774
Milford High School
Mike Krystyniak, Principal
$50,035 (part year)
Ya aren't going to say someone thinks in lables if they say "pickup" and "van" and "car" instead of "four wheeled motorized vehicles," are you? *grin*
I was simply pointing out that the idea of artificially increasing one profession's pay and artificially reducing another profession's pay is very close to communism...
If the gov't got out of the business of educating out children, good teachers would make what they are worth and crappy teachers would be fired. Right now, all teachers across most of the country are treated equally. It's kinda like, "We're all miserable together"
Aren't the differences between people's world outlooks fascinating?
Factor in their pensions, their health care, and their three month vacation and combine that with the sheer number of teachers that are turned out of colleges each year and you'll see that they are overpaid.
That being said, some teachers are well worth 40K and well more. Some of my kid's teachers are not worth 20K, imho. With my kids at least. In a perfect world, all compensation would be tied to performance and value given, not length on the job or degrees held. The problem is that it is very tough to measure. Teachers will teach for the tests only if their salary is tied to test scores, and will be too nice if the salary is tied to student and parent reviews. I don't currently see a fair way of reviewing teachers and compensation.
On the other hand, Stephen J Gould once suggested the public school system could be fixed by doubling the salary of teachers. This would attract the best and brightest students that typically get lured into MBA/PhD/MS/etc programs. This would put some real competition for these jobs. I don't know if private schools pay more, thus attracting better teachers and thus having better student performance. I have not seen data either way, but is an interesting idea and seems plausable. It is an expensive experiment, however.
As an earlier poster pointed out, there is an awful lot of administration that chews up edu budgets, thus keeping teacher salaries tight. I would add building improvements as a source of waste as well. The grade school down the street is constantly under construction. No new classrooms are built, but the offices are enlarged and remodelled, landscaping done, parking lot done, curbs done, new computers (which nobody knows how to use), roof seems to be redone yearly, etc. I would like to see this minimized prior to the front line teacher compensation.
Good teachers should be well paid and bad teachers should be replaced, just like any other profession. The market should be allowed to set these numbers.
My points are all over the board here, but having the union increase salaries simply to increase salaries is not the right approach to take and and can make teacher-parent relationships adversarial.
I like what Arnold is trying to do in California, to raise the minimum years of service for tenure to five and to change the salary structure of teachers' salaries to a more merit-based pay system.
Don't give teachers more money. It will just be wasted.
"After five years on the job, city bus drivers in Honolulu earn more than police officers, firefighters and public school teachers, according to salary information gathered by the company that runs TheBus for the city"
Unions only make one group wealthy...the union leaders
Witness how much EXXON got even after a $8 billion profit. The transfer in wealth in this instance is not called communism. WHY?
Wow.... a communist in our midst, I'll remember that...
In case you havn't noticed, most of the people around here don't like taxpayer money going to ANYONE, cooperate or private.
Insuring that America is educated insures a bright future for our country. Besides, I believe that all of you got a public education and turned out to be fine upstanding AMERICANS.